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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:18 am 
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400 cc

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:20 pm
Posts: 1269
johnnyboxer wrote:
mario.costasa wrote:
Chris123321 wrote:
GET A 2 stroke



Is it quiet?

I would like a quiet 2 stroke.


The Beta XTrainer is the 300cc 2 stroke trail bike you are looking for - twice the bike the 300 exc is, for trail riding

Oil injection too


Beta bikes are building a great reputation. Good value for money.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:23 am 
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400 cc

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:50 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Yorkshire
Paul13 wrote:
Beta bikes are building a great reputation. Good value for money.


In most cases £1000 cheaper than the equivalent size and class of Orange bike

_________________
2003 Honda XR400R3
1996 Suzuki DR350SE


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:19 am 
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650 cc Monster

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:31 pm
Posts: 3512
I know two people with three between them ! And they have a Leccy leg...


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:32 am 
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650 cc Monster

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:31 pm
Posts: 3512
johnnyboxer wrote:
mario.costasa wrote:
I had a RFS engine 450 which was far too fast for smooth progress with far too heavy a clutch for me.

I sold it after competitive riders told me I was far quicker on the crf250x which I could wring without fear instead of on off on on he KTM 450

The KTM 250 exc or the 350 exc post 2011 may be interesting to own when I do upgrade my 61 plate crf250x


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Good advice - many people would be less tired and ride better on a 250, compared to a 450

Unless you are a pro class expert rider you will be unlikely to use even 10% of a 450-500's true potential and in reality tie yourself in knots with all that power

Most trail riders are 'over biked' but will rarely admit they are and can't cope

Not my finding,I had to work the ARSE off my CRF250x and put in the commensurate amount of spannering a high stressed and high revved engine took, my 2007 453 exc, has had oil and filters and that's it ! One year, and a LOT of outings, I would be putting wheel bearings in the Honda every three months... Not touched the ktm, no engine work, apart from a free Sprag clutch fix, one valve adjustment, spanners...like an XR (not shims) not even a loose spoke, (wheel rebuild on CRF), parts are cheap, I would class this as THE LEAST maintenance intensive bike I've ever had....and big mills that aren't getting hammered last way longer than small ones that are...yes, I have a 4.4 litre BMW...180.000 purrs like a kitten...only just run in !


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:06 pm 
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650 cc Monster
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:34 am
Posts: 5141
Location: East Sussex
I have yet to be convinced to move away from KTM (unless it was a Husky version) but the Beta 300 does look good but I don't like 2Ts. If nothing else, they are horrible to follow but as I'm usually the slowest, that wouldn't normally matter.
They have a lovely looking new 4T though for £6900.

4T's noise may carry further but (enduro bike) 2T noise is massively more irritating to non bikers, from my observations...ring a ding a ding. :)
Doesn't meant they aren't any good though.

_________________
2014 KTM 690 Enduro R ABS - 2015 Husky FE 450 - 1967 Triumph Trophy TR6R
Liable to sudden and unintended changes in speed and direction.
Araf!


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:50 pm 
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200 cc

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:10 am
Posts: 257
So, rather than have the age old mini brain spasms that is a bad habit of forum life, let’s look at the originators question:

Hi there, I'm sure this question has been asked a thousand times before, so please bare with me. I've just recently passed my bike test and have now got the task of finding a bike. I'm 6 2", 13 stone, 39 years old and have a budget of between £2500- £3500. I was leaning towards the ktm market but I'm also thinking of maintenance and running costs. I've zero experience with bikes so any information or advice will be greatly appreciated. Also where would be a good place to start trying to find a bike? I've checked eBay out and was wondering about more alternative reliable services. Can't wait to get a bike so I can get out and about with you all. I'm based in the matlock derbyshire area so look forward to getting out. Thanks in advance. Steve.


Now, let’s break this down:

Experience = ZERO.

We would like to get Steve out on the lanes and riding and make this a fun, easy and enjoyable experience. Bike choice at this stage is important to Steve’s riding future. Should he buy an inappropriate bike at this stage, he will quickly become disillusioned and disappointed with the whole experience and may never come back.

Still think it’s a good idea to recommend an XR400 or DR350? Both rely on kick only start – which is great if you’ve been weaned on these things since Centurion was a rank and not a tank! However, buying one as a first bike? Really?

Think back to your first bike (some may need to look back without their rose coloured hindsight).
• OK, chains and sprockets. Made of metal right? Made of metal, so don’t wear out? Yeah right!
• Oil – No dipstick so no need to check it right? Mmmmmm
• Tyres – Black, round(ish), quantity two – good to go? Legal? Tubes (what are they)?
• That saddle – it’s a bit loose – but its OK cause I’ll sit on it all day
• Now, lets give it a kick and go riding. Ouch! That hurts, the bloody thing kicked me back!!!

So, the answer to Steve’s original question should be one that takes as much of the pain, surprises and wallet emptying maintenance away from the new rider as possible.

I’m afraid that comments like ‘Puhh, never had a problem kick starting in 30 years of trials and trail’ are not useful to people who have ZERO experience. But thanks for letting us know how big and brave you are! :D

BUDGET = £2.5 to £3K

A great budget to start here. BUT it is not enough for Xtrainer (great bike) or the new 4 Ride (another good bike, from what I’ve seen). So, take away the brand new or nearly new, simply because they come at a cost beyond the budget.

So, you are generally left with bikes a few years old. Plenty of money to go for something with electric and kick start (back-up only).

I think the ‘choice’ of cable or hydraulic is a bit of a blind alley. By this I mean that you won’t (as a new person to this stuff) even know the difference – you get whatever comes with the bike you choose. For that budget, some bikes may have cable, some may have hydraulic – It’ll work and over time you may work out the differences – but don’t get hung-up on it.

Engine size – always contentious! Some like em big (typically real men (northerners)) :D . Some like em small. As a start point, for a first bike 250cc is plenty (4 stroke or 2 stroke). If it turns out that you are gifted and can ride the snotty/rocky/slippy stuff really well – then maybe move to a bigger cc. There again – it can all depend on where you are going to be riding? I find for longer days, when there is plenty of road work, my 390 has great long legs. When the riding is in more arduous terrain and I don’t need high speed road ability, I love the Xtrainer…………horses for courses (and ability).

So, I’ll stick with my original thoughts on this, with maybe adding a 250cc 2T in the mix. Mmmm, which one fits the bill???


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 Post subject: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:59 pm 
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400 cc

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:50 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Yorkshire
mudeevee wrote:
So, rather than have the age old mini brain spasms that is a bad habit of forum life, let’s look at the originators question:

Hi there, I'm sure this question has been asked a thousand times before, so please bare with me. I've just recently passed my bike test and have now got the task of finding a bike. I'm 6 2", 13 stone, 39 years old and have a budget of between £2500- £3500. I was leaning towards the ktm market but I'm also thinking of maintenance and running costs. I've zero experience with bikes so any information or advice will be greatly appreciated. Also where would be a good place to start trying to find a bike? I've checked eBay out and was wondering about more alternative reliable services. Can't wait to get a bike so I can get out and about with you all. I'm based in the matlock derbyshire area so look forward to getting out. Thanks in advance. Steve.


Now, let’s break this down:

Experience = ZERO.

We would like to get Steve out on the lanes and riding and make this a fun, easy and enjoyable experience. Bike choice at this stage is important to Steve’s riding future. Should he buy an inappropriate bike at this stage, he will quickly become disillusioned and disappointed with the whole experience and may never come back.

Still think it’s a good idea to recommend an XR400 or DR350? Both rely on kick only start – which is great if you’ve been weaned on these things since Centurion was a rank and not a tank! However, buying one as a first bike? Really?

Think back to your first bike (some may need to look back without their rose coloured hindsight).
• OK, chains and sprockets. Made of metal right? Made of metal, so don’t wear out? Yeah right!
• Oil – No dipstick so no need to check it right? Mmmmmm
• Tyres – Black, round(ish), quantity two – good to go? Legal? Tubes (what are they)?
• That saddle – it’s a bit loose – but its OK cause I’ll sit on it all day
• Now, lets give it a kick and go riding. Ouch! That hurts, the bloody thing kicked me back!!!

So, the answer to Steve’s original question should be one that takes as much of the pain, surprises and wallet emptying maintenance away from the new rider as possible.

I’m afraid that comments like ‘Puhh, never had a problem kick starting in 30 years of trials and trail’ are not useful to people who have ZERO experience. But thanks for letting us know how big and brave you are! :D

BUDGET = £2.5 to £3K

A great budget to start here. BUT it is not enough for Xtrainer (great bike) or the new 4 Ride (another good bike, from what I’ve seen). So, take away the brand new or nearly new, simply because they come at a cost beyond the budget.

So, you are generally left with bikes a few years old. Plenty of money to go for something with electric and kick start (back-up only).

I think the ‘choice’ of cable or hydraulic is a bit of a blind alley. By this I mean that you won’t (as a new person to this stuff) even know the difference – you get whatever comes with the bike you choose. For that budget, some bikes may have cable, some may have hydraulic – It’ll work and over time you may work out the differences – but don’t get hung-up on it.

Engine size – always contentious! Some like em big (typically real men (northerners)) :D . Some like em small. As a start point, for a first bike 250cc is plenty (4 stroke or 2 stroke). If it turns out that you are gifted and can ride the snotty/rocky/slippy stuff really well – then maybe move to a bigger cc. There again – it can all depend on where you are going to be riding? I find for longer days, when there is plenty of road work, my 390 has great long legs. When the riding is in more arduous terrain and I don’t need high speed road ability, I love the Xtrainer…………horses for courses (and ability).

So, I’ll stick with my original thoughts on this, with maybe adding a 250cc 2T in the mix. Mmmm, which one fits the bill???



DR 350 SE is electric start btw

Probably before your time though ;)

Kick starting is not the bogey you make out on a well set up bike - but not for everyone

_________________
2003 Honda XR400R3
1996 Suzuki DR350SE


Last edited by johnnyboxer on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:13 pm 
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650 cc Monster

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 4440
Yup...most DR350S s were electric start, and some XR400s were too.

My fave XR was the 250 with a 280 big bore kit...a six-speed gearbox transforms the trail-riding experience. And I loved my kick-only DR350S. Stupidly sold it and got a 610 cc flying turd with a Husqvarna badge on it...worst motorcycle decision of my life!

The one thing I don't like about my CCM 404 DS (apart from the air filter) is the 5-speed 'box. Makes it feel a bit like a Series IIA Land Rover on main roads and motorways.

If yo can find a good one, I'd go for a CCM: you get Japanese reliability from the engine, and European handing (less wobbly than a KTM, too).

Also...seriously...middle-aged/old rambler types love them..."Oh, is that one like John Banks used to ride, do they still make them etc etc"

Go CCM!


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:19 pm 
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650 cc Monster

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 4440
johnnyboxer wrote:
jonpaul1st wrote:
Don't buy into the myth that modern European enduro bikes aren't trail bikes. EU enduro bikes have to have all the road niceties that qualify them as trailbikes that can be ridden on the road straight out of the box. You don't get that with the Japanese competition machines, many of which cannot even be used as enduro bikes out of the box.

In practical terms the EU enduro bikes make fantastic trail bikes - light, reliable, robust, low maintenance, low depreciation, simple and easy to work on, cheap spares and, most importantly, low impact on the green roads.

Don't rule out a 2 stroke, especially one of the later six speed KTM/Husky/Berg 250/300's.

A rule of thumb is to avoid anything with a cable clutch - a sure sign that the manufacturer is stuck in the 1990's or has otherwise cut corners to build a bike down to a price, which means that either or both reliability and riding experience will be significantly compromised (unless of course you want to experience old skool lack of refinement and reliability).


I disagree with the cable v hydraulic clutch issue

My competition dirt bike with a hydraulic clutch is very on/off whereas my trail bikes with a cable are much more progressive in clutch operation

As for European enduro bikes for trail riding - yes they are ok in the lack of alternative offerings from Japan (except from Honda & Yam)

Reliability - I don't think your European offerings are as trouble free that you are suggesting

However I think Mr Simpson will agree that the DR350 SE is probably the most complete TRAIL bike ever made over the last 20 years - sadly most trail riders today weren't riding trails when the DR wad sold new

For pure trail riding it is a consummate all rounder unlike the finicky European 'one trick ponies' enduro bikes you are advocating

Closest to the DR350 is the CRF250L but sadly it is heavier and has less power to boot

After owning all manner of other bikes including KTM's over the last 20 years, I have returned to a DR 350 SE this year and I am loving it, forgetting just how good they were/are

I don't need more power or a better chassis to comply with the TRF code of conduct which advocates a 25mph speed limit on green roads ;)



Yup,

I got one of the first DR350Ss in the country. One of the American magazines (they got the DR before we did) summed up their test by saying "Hands down, this if the best four-stroke trail bike ever to come out of Japan."

All these years later...that's quite possibly still true.

A lot of the pre-launch development work on it was done by a chap called Al Baker who had an American business called "XRs Only" selling parts to make the Honda XRs realise their full potential.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start? Which bike?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:23 pm 
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80 cc

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:04 pm
Posts: 17
Just a quick update, I've got my eye on a ktm 250 exc f on eBay,it's a 2006 and it's going for £2800. Anyone advise me on what to look out for should I decide to go and have a look?


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