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 Post subject: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Can I suggest that everyone follows the advice given on pages 5 & 6 of the current issue of Trail?

After the weekend, I will post up a list of GLEAM-supporting MPs and a link to the Hansard of the NERC debate.

IT'S PAYBACK TIME!


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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:05 pm 
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Is that an updated list of GLEAM MPs? The most recent I could find was from a 2007 GLEAM newsletter.


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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:23 pm 
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If they supported GLEAM in 2007, let's get them out of Parliament in 2010!


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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:13 pm 
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I have emailed my local candidates for NE Derbyshire, and I am awaiting a reply. I have sent a copy to the TRF email as requested in Trail mag. Please will the rest of you have a go too !
As soon as you post this Gleam list, I (for one) will be getting stuck in, and with the greatest of pleasure !

May I also take this opputunity to say thank you to Richard for going to the effort to list this information on these MPs for us.

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Support for local people and businesses in the Peak District. www.peaktrailriders.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 12:12 pm 
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Here's a link to the Don't vote list (viewtopic.php?t=1437) giving the list of GLEAM affiliated MPs from 2007. The list may well have grown in the last couple of years, but these are the names that we know, so lets get writing!


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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 2:36 pm 
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There's a great website called "The Public Whip" (http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/) that shows you how MPs have voted on legislation (or if they even attended).

If you go to the website, the quickest route seems to be to enter the name of an MP into the search box (top right)*, then click on the name of the MP. Click on the box labelled "Votes Attended" and you can see how they voted on the 6th and 7th June 2005 (NERCA). If it says minority, they were against the bill.

If you want to save time, here is the list of NERCA votes. And according to this search it looks like all the Labour and Lib-Dem MPs who attended the vote supported NERCA, and all the Conservative MPs voted against, whether they were members of GLEAM or not.

Also, CROW was first voted on on 20 March 2000, and there were a number of votes in June and a final vote on 20th November.

Happy reading!

*The first search will fail as the seach box isn't for MPs names, but the error report then tells you a list of MPs whose names are most similar to what you typed, which makes a great shortcut.


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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 2:54 pm 
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To save people time, here is a copy of the article from Trail:

Quote:

Question your Candidates!

If the pundits are to be believed, then the coming General Election may well result in a hung parliament, with the outcome in the marginals holding or swinging on just a few votes, and ‘interest blocks’. Here, motorcyclists could have a significant effect on results. If you have the opportunity to question candidates on their attitude to motorcycling in general, and trail riding in particular, then please do so, and let the TRF know what response you get.

Please send the questions you asked, and the reply you got (and from whom), to: southandsouthwest@trf.org.uk

This General Election sees more sitting MPs standing down than any in modern times. Asking the sitting MP about his or her track record on, e.g., the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006, will therefore not be possible in many constituencies, and that Act is starting to slip into history in parliamentary terms anyway. These questions are mainly applicable to England and Wales, but do have some impact in Scotland, and MPs for Scottish constituencies can vote on England and Wales national legislation, although issues affecting Wales are increasingly being considered and commenced independently.

At the time of writing this (early April) the best way to find out who are the main candidates in your constituency is via the principal parties’ web sites.

<snipped, we know who the candidates are now>

The current sitting Members of Parliament are listed here: http://www.parliament.uk/mpslordsandoff ... s/alms.cfm These are some specimen questions to ask, but feel free to modify them to your own viewpoint or local circumstances. The last two questions, specific to NERCA 2006 and to traffic regulation orders, may simply be too ‘technical’ for candidates who have not been MPs before, so use your judgement in deciding what to ask. Try to keep questions simple. Long, multi-part questions tend to get vague answers:

1. I am a motorcyclist. I often feel that motorcyclists get a rough deal from the government, although there are millions of us, and we are mostly mature, responsible citizens. Do you have a motorcycle driving licence? Do you have a view on motorcycling as both transport and recreation?
2. As a motorcyclist, I am also what is known as a ‘trail rider’. I use my road-legal, quiet, machine to explore the minor roads and byways of Britain in a responsible and sustainable way. In recent years my activity has been progressively squeezed out of the countryside. Do you believe that I have a legitimate expectation to be able to enjoy Britain’s minor highways, along with walkers, horse riders and cyclists?
3. There is undoubtedly a problem caused by ‘cowboy’ motorcyclists, making noise and driving where they should not be (e.g. in country parks and nature sites). My friends and I are not ‘cowboys’, yet we are usually caught by the measures imposed to prevent the illegal use - measures that often do not address the problem and only bite on hitherto legitimate and responsible motorcyclists. No government would dream of penalising innocent people on the basis of the race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual preferences, but governments do on the basis of people’s hobbies and transport. What is your view on this?
4. It seems to me that there is a steady trend towards ‘privatising the countryside’, making more roads ‘access only’, and giving more powers to the National Parks. Do you agree that Britain’s highway network, and the freedom of the individual to use and enjoy it, are fundamental rights that must be protected?
5. As a recreational motorcyclist I spend a lot of money in the countryside over a year. As a group we are significant contributors to the rural economy. Do you understand that not everyone wishes to walk or cycle, and that the ‘spend’ of the private motorist remains crucial to the survival of many (probably most) rural cafes, shops, petrol stations and B&Bs?
6. Public facilities in the countryside require sufficient investment to keep them usable. Our network of byways and public paths is a jewel in the crown of Britain, and must have enough resources to keep it in repair and to prevent obstructions. Will you defend the public’s access to our minor highways and ensure that sufficient funds are allocated and applied?
7. In 2006, Parliament passed an Act (Natural Environment & Rural Communities Act) that closed many old roads to motorcyclists. From sensible beginnings the Bill was hijacked, and the end result is a nonsense. Many good and sustainable routes were closed to motorcycles, whilst some others that were left open to motorists are not sustainable. This Act created a ‘nonsense’ situation that even closed some proper tarmac roads. If elected, would you/your party be prepared to rescind the bad parts of NERCA 2006 and create a workable, equitable statute?
8. Often, a local highway authority will impose a traffic regulation order on an unmetalled road to ‘manage’ traffic by prohibiting it. The law requires these roads to be maintained at public expense, yet the power to prohibit the public is regularly being abused. What will your party do to rectify this situation?

Alan Kind and Dave Tilbury


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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:20 pm 
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GLEAM has gone all coy about who its MPs are...

...can't think why?

But here's a quote from Hansard


Mr. Paice: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. That is exactly our contention. Many landowners have made available former sandpits and other such sites for people to do the most amazing things with four-wheel drives or trail bikes. I have seen it myself. Members of my family have done it and I have been frightened silly watching them. It is done on land that they have paid for permission to use and the fee goes to meet the cost of repair and maintenance.

The Minister has looked carefully at the possibility of carrying out a sustainability assessment for trail management—the voluntary approach that he has rightly been trying to thrash out with users. I congratulate him on his attempt to find a voluntary solution and I congratulate the motoring organisation Land Access and Recreation Association, but frankly I do not believe that it can work for two reasons. First, the devised scoring system, when viewed reasonably objectively, is heavily weighted towards approval of the byway as a BOAT. There is no real process for ensuring that the byways are maintained or for dealing with the problem of regulating people who are not members of associations.

Secondly, new evidence that I wish to cite to the House suggests that at least some members of the TRF are using the process as a smokescreen. I wish to read out a few quotes from the federation's confidential website, which we have managed to access. One states:

"Word is we have to be prepared to have the claims for our '100 lanes' poised and ready to go, if necessary, the same or following day that the Bill is enacted".


Another quote reads:

"But, for sure, we need to be poised to claim at the drop of a hat."



11 Oct 2005 : Column 205


A further quote states:

"Research all you want to ride and prepare the schedule 14 applications in readiness for the lifting of the moratorium on claiming BOATS. We know that has worked where members have become more active, because 6 counties have a hell of a lot of BOAT claims."


I have many more such quotes, all of which emphasise to me and many other observers that there is, at least among some members of the organisation, a conspiracy to provide a vast increase in the number of applications for BOATs the moment that the Bill becomes law, if the Government agree to the voluntary approach.

Several hon. Members rose—

Mr. Paice: I am surrounded. I give way to the hon. Member for Sherwood (Mr. Tipping.)

Paddy Tipping : The hon. Gentleman has just mentioned a website and talked about some of the people who have contributed to it. Is it not the case that some of the quotes that he used were from executive committee members of that organisation, not the rank and file? This campaign is being led from the very top of an organisation to which the Minister and his officials have been talking in good faith.

Mr. Paice: The hon. Gentleman is right. I wanted to conclude this item by referring to one particular quote, which says:

"However, nothing is more certain than if we are seen to break the moratorium, and by doing so illustrate that user groups cannot control the actions of their members and that members care nothing for the proposals that have been submitted to the Minister for the future provision and management of our activity, then the pressure will be increased further to BACK-DATE the cut-off date for claims. . . .


So, TRF DEMANDS is that no claims are submitted at least after the NERC Bill 3rd Reading, which will be between 11–15 October. TRF Officers will reconsider the moratorium after the 3rd Reading.


Regards Geoff Wilson Chairman TRF".


Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD): While I understand the concerns that the hon. Gentleman puts forward, does he accept that the great majority of users of motorised two-wheel vehicles in the countryside are responsible? In the early stage, when I was involved in trying to develop a dialogue between motor cyclists and the Government, it was obvious that the great majority of them and their organisations, such as the British Motorcyclists Federation and the Motorcycle Action Group, were keen to act and be seen to act responsibly. Does he agree that any legislation should not have punitive consequences for people who have never sought to break the law or cause inconvenience?

Mr. Paice: The hon. Gentleman is right. A large proportion of users cause no serious problems or damage. My purpose in reading out the quotes was to emphasise to the House that, unless we take action by accepting the amendments and new clauses, we will find that what has already happened, namely, a surge in the number of new applications for BOATs, will become a flood the moment tonight's proceedings are concluded. That is my big worry, and that is my purpose in making those points.

Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): I regret to say that my hon. Friend is absolutely right— that flood has already

11 Oct 2005 : Column 206

occurred in the county of Wiltshire. I and others who want the date to be brought forward advocate that without any sense of vindictiveness. I spent an afternoon with 4x4 off-roaders. I saw what they were doing and listened very carefully to what they said. I have also had a continuous dialogue with trail riders. I very much regret to say that I see no meeting of minds, and I do not think that there will be one. We must regulate such things sooner rather than later because of the damage that is being done. Yes, it is true that a lot of them are responsible people, but a lot of them are not, and they will not see that they are doing damage that will wipe out the historical evidence and the attractiveness of such byways, which are hundreds and even thousands of years old.

Mr. Paice: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, and I do not disagree with anything that he says.

Mr. Redwood : I should like to thank my hon. Friend for bringing this important matter to the attention of the House. In Wokingham and west Berkshire, districts covering parts of my constituency, there is great concern. We are all in favour of proper facilities for 4x4 users—they should be well away from settlements and in appropriate places where the damage can be controlled or repaired and where it does not annoy other people—but we are desperately worried that the Government have stirred up a hornet's nest that will lead to lots of applications where they are not wanted and that they have not given councils the powers to resist them properly.

Mr. Paice: I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for his support. What matters to me and my hon. Friends is that everyone should have a reasonable opportunity to use all types of our byways. Nothing in any of the amendments or new clauses to which I am about to refer will take away all the existing BOATs. Of course, local authorities, and now national parks, have the opportunity to impose traffic regulation orders on them.

John Mann : The hon. Gentleman makes the point that his proposal will do nothing to existing rights. How would he deal with the anomaly, which other hon. Members and I have highlighted in the Chamber during the past four years, whereby a number of such applications have been passed because of historic rights? Perhaps he can explain why he suggests putting an arbitrary cut-off date at the beginning of the process?

Mr. Paice: If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will deal with new clause 4 in detail in just a moment, when I will try to address that point. We do not seek in these amendments and new clauses to go back beyond the genesis of the Bill. Let me put it as generally as that. The fact that local authorities, and now national parks, have the power to issue traffic regulation orders is part of the answer to his point about how to deal with those BOATs that have been recorded already, based on the fact that someone once rode a chariot and four down the byway during the Punic wars or whatever. Clearly, the Government are trying to close that loophole under clause 62, and we support that.

11 Oct 2005 : Column 207


I want to mention an e-mail that many hon. Members will have received in the past 48 hours from the British Motorcyclists Federation in which it supports the TRF. I was very sorry to read it because a reputable organisation has done itself a disservice by associating itself with the TRF. I have already made my case about the TRF in the quotes that I have given, but the BMF says that there has been no surge in applications. Well, the facts clearly belie that. My hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (Robert Key) has just referred to Wiltshire. In Hampshire, 75 claims were made in the first five months of this year, whereas four claims were made in the preceding 12 months. We have evidence, as does the Minister, that local authorities are currently considering about 2,000 claims.


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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:43 am 
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I emailed the 3 Canditatess of the major parties today withy some of my concerns about govt policy motorcycles.

I got a half arsed reply from my labour candidate so far?

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 Post subject: Re: There's an election coming...
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:30 am 
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Please forward all the replies (and your questions) to Dave Tilbury at southandsouthwest@trf.org.uk

I've now received 3 replies back since my email on Sunday, but I'm most looking forward to the Conservative reply as he is the current long-standing MP and was around for the NERCA vote.


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