TRF Forums

Mmm.. so it's not a National park, i.e. open to every individual in the Nation then, is it? It's a Notquitenationalbecausetherearepeoplewewanttodiscriminateagainst Park

Can you imagine the uproar if they were to ban fat people from the National Park? It's been shown that weight per square area of contact patch with the group is a significant factor in degradation of unsealed surfaces so let's get rid of anyone whose weight puts them above a certain kg/sq inch of shoe sole.. And then let's move the goalposts every year and reclassify routes at whim to oust those fatties!

Hypocrites!

Yes they're hypocrits and yes some of them are being manipulated by people with an ideolgical axe to grind but it's also important that we are honest with our selves.

There are problems resulting from recreational vehicle use in the Peak District and some of their concerns are legitimate.

What is not legitimate is simply saying "well there are some problems with some types of vehicles (or behaviour) on some lanes therefore all vehicles should be banned rom all lanes".

That's just arrogant prejudice.

What I meant when I said that I'm for compromise and that all parties must be willing to make concessions is that there are real problems here that need real solutions. We will not secure our future in this national park until we address these problems. It would be unrealistic to think that all of these issues can be addressed without some sort of traffic managment on some routes.

Lets be blunt, this probably means "some" TROs but TROs don't have to be blanket bans and we should be actively promoting alternative traffic managment ideas.

At the momment were not, were fiddling while Rome burns!

Regards

Richard

Chicken and egg? These, of course, are perceived problems. Hence the antis ability to make it up as they go along. Given a chance they will keep on inventing problems for innocent people (like us) to 'solve' and divert us from the task in hand. Lets secure our already legitimate rights first then address the 'problems'. I think it's accepted (by us) that a ban will not solve the issues the antis have, so lets give ourselves a pat on the back for being respnsible users and take it from there.

[quote="steve cartwright
Chicken and egg? These, of course, are perceived problems. Hence the antis ability to make it up as they go along. Given a chance they will keep on inventing problems for innocent people (like us) to 'solve' and divert us from the task in hand. Lets secure our already legitimate rights first then address the 'problems'. I think it's accepted (by us) that a ban will not solve the issues the antis have, so lets give ourselves a pat on the back for being respnsible users and take it from there.[/quote]

I agree that we need to secure our right of access as a priority. We all know DCC's stance on the majority of the routes we use! I'm convinced they are waiting for a change in the law that will enable authorities across the country to close the network overnight. I have said this before, the main reasons for complaint could be solved very easily but as they need the complaints to keep the fuel on the fire it wouldnt be in "their" best interest to stop them. It may be an over simplified opinion, but all we are dealing with are the symtons of a disease that we need to cure.

"their" being the controlling bodies,groups and induviduals that will make the most of a complete ban, financially and politically

MS I'm intrigued!

Who will make the most of a complete ban financially and politically?

Steve

Yes there is exageration and dishonesty in much of the antis reporting of the facts but not all of the problems are "percieved", some at least are objectively real.

When I was riding in the Peaks a couple of weeks ago I was frankly depressed to see the ammount of illegal off piste riding that has been taking place. Especially near lanes where I hadn't seen evidence of it before. It seems that leaving the lane to tw*t about on the surrounding land is now considered ok by increasing numbers of riders.

And not just in places like Pin Dale where it's always been a problem!

Of course I don't and never will accept that legitimate users should be punished for the crimes of others. Collective punishments are never fair but equally we can't just ignore other peoples grievences.

What we need to do is engage fully in the political process that is shaping our future in the Peak Park. The plans for action on the 24th April being discussed here are intended to begin that process of more overt and directly political activity.

Asserting our "moral legitimacy" is a key part of that process but so is demonstrating that we're serious about helping to solve te real problems that exisit.

Regards

Richard

Landowners, property developers, those that can afford homes in the national parks, local authorities, highway authorities etc. all stand to benefit from any restriction to the public row network. The issues that are affecting us, are going to happen to other users once a precedent has been set.

If this is going to be a National trail riding day, would it be not be worth getting this event to happen over the country in all the affected areas?

Hi, Richard. It's just the chicken and egg bit that's wearing me down. The problems exist and won't go away until there's a copper standing at the entrance to every lane - that includes if there's ever a ban. The knobheads will just keep on keeping on. All I'm saying is we can bust a gut on all sorts of resources to help (and we do) but my priority would be to get the others to accept our legitimate rights without the sweetener of us having to be accountable for the knobheads. It's a no win if we go down that road. We're living in the post-Thatcher world of the non-existence of society - so we're all individuals now, this means that for every individual anti there's an individual problem which, if you put yourself up to solve, will be a never ending list of particular problems on a particular lane for particular people. This is reflected in the upsurge of minority pressure groups, albeit aided and abetted by GLEAM et al, and this is why they're being promoted and supported. Our greatest weakness is our willingness to beat ourselves up. I prefer the LAW which, I believe, is on our side whether someones got their individual issue or not. So let's start there and not be totally distracted by individual problems from tiny minorities or they're likely to distract us to death. That's all I'm saying.

Good post Steve, very much in agreement

Did anyone see the BBC 4 program last wednesday about trailriders and 4X4's in the peak district?
If the BBC can be believed I got the impression we were pushing against a somewhat open door with regard to the Park Authority. They seemed to be in favour of a Park open for ALL users, but in the end were persuaded by a large lobbying group. I also saw that the "rocking the BOAT" protesters had stolen our "protecting green lanes" slogan. I think there maybe some leverage in telling Park Authority we support their aim to keep the Peaks open for ALL users. We are not selfish users, we do not want to ban others.
Also I noted the protesters were very quick to phone the police over a supposed incidendent off camera. So a very one sided list of incidents maybe being collated. I suggest that we stop being so nice and if challenged or stopped or have abuse shouted at us when carrying out our perfectly legal activity, that we be more proactive in phoning the police on 101, the non emergency number perhaps, and report incidents of "harrassement". After all only a policeman in uniform, a traffic warden or the land owner can stop you as I understand it.
I know this stops us for quite a while and the offenders will disappear quickly, and it is unlikely for the police to attend site anyway. However this week of events is less about trailriding and more about getting our voice heard and some balance could be restored.
I would also suggest that all incidents at other times be reported, but to move away from the offenders before making the call and tell the police we are not still at the scene as we wished to avoid confrontation and not to suffer the same fate as Gary Greaves.

The idea of a National Trail Riding Day just came to my head in the heat of writing these various posts.

Yes it would be a good idea to have groups out all over the country at the same time. It just seemed like a good Banner for everyone to get behind. If riders cannot get to the Peaks on the 24th but can Ride then i say Ride....

We can organise another anytime in the future....we are not limited to one.