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 Post subject: Please put my mind at rest.....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:50 pm 
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125cc

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:25 pm
Posts: 149
Hello All

I am appealing to anyone who may have a KTM 2017 450 EXC-F........bear with me here......

Please can you tell me what the oil level is on your 'spy glass' when the engine is cold and the bike is sitting on a level surface, upright, on its wheels (all assuming that you know that the correct quantity of oil is in the engine in the first place)?

The thing that concerns me is that the manual asks that the oil level is checked after the engine has been run to temperature and then sat for 1 minute. Surely it would be better to check the engine oil level before running the engine because if the oil level was low then it may damage the engine......mind you who am I to question KTM?

The other thing that concerns me is that my girlfriends KTM 2017 350 EXC-F is showing full oil in the 'spy glass' when engine is cold and bike sat level etc (completely different engine to the 450, I know). This makes sense because as the engine oil gets warmed up and moves around the engine you would expect to find that the oil level would then not show 'full' in he spy glass after it has been stopped for 1 minute, but sit somewhere in the 'circle' as the manual suggests.

The problem is that the last service was carried out by a KTM dealer so I do not know if the correct quantities of oil have been put in each bike and therefore giving me a good 'bench mark' to work from. Unfortunately I did no check the oil levels, when we first got the bikes back after the last service, again no 'bench mark' for me to work from.

So to sum up...at the moment I am thinking that my GF's bike has just the right amount of oil or possibly too much. Where as I believe that my bike may have to little, as the oil only just comes up to the bottom edge of the 'circle' in the 'spy glass' when engine is cold and bike level etc.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Cheers

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Please put my mind at rest.....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:15 pm 
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650 cc Monster

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 4440
I'd just check the level is as it should be by following the process as outlined by KTM in the manual.

My KTM has a dry sump engine, with the oil in a separate tank.

If I topped the oil up to the 'correct' level when the engine was cold, than it would be badly overfilled, because, when cold, the oil runs down from the tank into the engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Please put my mind at rest.....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:50 pm 
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650 cc Monster
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:22 pm
Posts: 2439
Location: Romiley
Greetings Peter,

Initially you should be able to download a manual for both KTM models of motorcycles from the following link;

http://www.ktm.com/us/service/manuals/

If I might explain motorcycles that store their engine oil in the engine sump are known as 'wet sump' engines and those that store their oil in a separate oil tank or in the frame are known as 'dry sump'.

The oil pump on wet sump engines has a single action which is to force oil to the various locations that need lubrication or require oil to be squirted for internal cooling and non pressurised surface lubrication. The oil pump on dry sump engines is in two sections, the first acts to force oil around internally to lubricate and cool - plus a slightly larger capacity but lower pressure section which returns the oil back to the external storage area.

Generally dry sump systems 'leak' a little bit of oil through the oil pump gears overtime whilst the engine is not running. This oil collects in the sump section and has to be pumped back into storage and this takes a little time to do so, hence you can only really check the oil level after the engine has run for a given period of time. However, as a guide so that you can tell how much oil has drained down some engines are fitted with a spy glass in an engine case.

I hope that these comments help explain the basic differences between wet and dry sump systems. If you need further guidance then please do not hesitate to ask and it will be our pleasure to try and help out ;)

TTFN

Hugh.

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Please note that I am not a National TRF Officer, any views expressed are my own and may not be in accordance with any official policy.


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 Post subject: Re: Please put my mind at rest.....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:44 pm 
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300 cc
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Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:07 pm
Posts: 570
I think it's safe to assume that a main dealer knows how to service the bike and that he has used the correct amount of oil.

Perform the check as per the manual and top up as is necessary. At the next oil change, assuming you do that yourself, you can see whats what in the spy glass, when you're selfsatisfied the exact amount of oil has been used.

TBH as long as there is oil in the spyglass when warm and stood for a min, you should be fine. (Obviously the bike does need to be upright and not led on its stand, sorry stating the obvious, but you never know!)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: Please put my mind at rest.....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:10 pm 
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50 cc

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:14 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Suffolk
xparauk wrote:
The problem is that the last service was carried out by a KTM dealer so I do not know if the correct quantities of oil have been put in each bike and therefore giving me a good 'bench mark' to work from. Unfortunately I did no check the oil levels, when we first got the bikes back after the last service, again no 'bench mark' for me to work from.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Cheers

Peter


Hi Peter,

Firstly, sorry but I can't help you with an answer to your main question.

However, I'll just add that I wouldn't trust the oil level to be correct after a service just because it was done by a main dealer.
My brother recently bought a brand new KTM Superduke 1290 and after checking fluid levels after its first service (at a main KTM dealer) had to ask them to fully fill both the oil and coolant as they were both just about showing at the lower end of their respective ranges.

Just sayin'!


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 Post subject: Re: Please put my mind at rest.....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:22 pm 
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125cc

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:25 pm
Posts: 149
Thanks for all your input.

We took the bikes out yesterday, for a short run to get the engine up to temperature. Got back home, waited 1 minute and checked the oil levels and both are fine. Now I have my 'benchmark' for 'cold' oil check.

Cheers

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Please put my mind at rest.....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:43 am 
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80 cc
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:37 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Western Weald
MarkH wrote:
I wouldn't trust the oil level to be correct after a service just because it was done by a main dealer.

I agree. I had a dealer fail to change the oil at all! Needless to say, I haven't been there since.

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